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Freeborn
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Date Posted:01/31/2015 12:45 AMCopy HTML

From: joie  (Original Message)Sent: 3/27/2005 1:52 PM

~ Who Wrote Revelation ~

The Scriptural truth is that John the Baptist wrote the book of Revelation, NOT John the disciple. This is solidly proven in the Word, itself. When you take any man's word for things, instead of finding the Scriptural answers, it will always be wrong; it matters not when that person lived.

Much of history has been told and re-told; and deliberately changed to suit someone's purpose. History is certainly NOT a reliable source of TRUTH.

You must go by the Word. What is the Revelation? It is the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev. 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Now, stop and study this. This says that this John (a servant) bore record of Jesus.  It also says he bore record of all things that he saw.  He saw who Jesus was.  He told the world who the Son of God is.

So, who is revealed in the Word to have done this? Go to John 1:8 (speaking of John the Baptist)-He was not that Light, but was sent to BEAR WITNESS OF THAT LIGHT.

Bear witness and bear record means the same thing. I ask you to find one Word which designates John the disciple to do this.

Now, another proof is this: Revelation is a prophetical book; therefore HAD to have been written by a prophet. Now since, the prophets stopped with John the Baptist, him being the last one, it had to be this John. Proof: Luke 16:16-The law and the prophets were UNTIL JOHN: since that time the kingdom of God is preached and every man presseth into it.

That stopped the prophets. Since that time, preaching is God's way of getting the Word of God to people.

So, since it had to be a prophet who wrote Revelation, it had to be John the Baptist.

More proof: Back in Rev. 1:1-and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.

This is saying an angel brought this message to this John. Angels were used by God to bring the Word of God to the prophets. This was not done so to the NT. writers. The disciples were personally taught by Jesus. He opened their understanding AFTER his resurrection. They were not taught by an angel. That was the method of bringing the Word to prophets; strictly OT. method.

Not only that, but the prophets are the ones called 'servants'. The disciples were not called Servants.

John's whole purpose was to prepare the way of the Lord; to reveal him to the world; to bear record of Jesus. The disciple did not bear this record; John the Baptist did.

John said he was in the wilderness for the Word of God. He is the one who stayed in the wilderness until his showing to Israel. He received this revelation of Jesus BEFORE he started his ministry. God had given him a sign by which he would know the one he had written about. John bore record of Jesus when he baptized him.

Read Jesus' own words: John 5:33-Ye sent unto John, and he BARE WITNESS unto the truth.

v36-But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do , bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Mt 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

This shows that John the Baptist was such an important man in the plan and works of God, that he was prophesied of by the Prophet Isaiah. It was told that he stayed in the wilderness until his showing to Israel. He was the one who received the revelation of the Son of God and made the way for Jesus. John was an Old Testament Prophet, and the very last one of them. Therefore, He was the one that an angel came to and gave the word of God to. John the disciple was no prophet. None of the NT ministers were of this type of prophet. They were taught the Word and had their understanding opened by Jesus, not an angel.

At the Baptism of Jesus, John declared that God had spoken to him previously about this Son of God and given him a sign by which he would know when he met the One. This alone proves that John the Baptist was the one to whom God had given the revelation of Jesus to and the one to reveal Jesus to the world. John the Baptist is the one who prepared the way for Jesus and bore witness of Jesus. No Scripture shows that John the disciple bore witness of Jesus nor that he made the way for Jesus. Only a prophet of the Old Testament type could have written the prophetical Book of Revelation.

Re 1:9- I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Now history teaches us that John the disciple was EXILED or imprisoned on the isle of Patmos. But I find no Scripture saying this. This is the one and only time Patmos is mentioned in Scripture. There is no mention here of being exiled or imprisoned here. It is made-up stuff. How long will people continue to accept made-up stuff instead of studying and accepting the truth of the Written Word of God?

Being in this isle of Patmos is also the wilderness which John the Baptist stayed in until his showing to Israel. Here on this isle, John the Baptist was given the last prophetical Book of the Scriptures, the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST. See, that it said John was on this isle FOR THE WORD OF GOD. He was not there as a prisoner. He was not there for punishment or anything of that nature. He was there to receive the Word of God, the REVELATION of Jesus Christ.

After having written this marvelous Book, John came preaching the kingdom of Heaven and repentance to Israel. His entire purpose for doing so was to reveal the Son of God to the world. John the Baptist is the one who BORE WITNESS OF JESUS, so says the Written Word of God.

John 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Now the above verses are CLEARLY speaking of John the Baptist. We have no record where the Jews, to whom Jesus was speaking in John 5:33, ever sent unto any John except the Baptist, to inquire of the truth. The John which the Jews sent unto, is the same John who bore witness of the true Light, Jesus. This is the very purpose God sent John to the world, to bear witness of Jesus, the Light. Those two Scriptures alone placed together, prove beyond a doubt that John the Baptist is also the Revelator. To reveal is the same as to make known or bear witness of someone. Only John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. That is what the Revelation is about, making the way for Jesus and revealing Him to the world. This was accomplished by John the Baptist.

Now, one last Scripture; the words of the John who wrote the book:

Rev. 22:8-And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things.

v9-Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am they fellowservant, and of thyBRETHREN THE PROPHETS, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Now see, this angel told this John that he was the fellow servant of his BRETHREN, THE PROPHETS. This clearly identifies this John as a PROPHET. The prophets ended with John the Baptist. So says the Word of God.

Jesus himself taught his disciples; not an angel.

Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mt 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Mt 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mt 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

The above verses prove that the Jews sent unto John the Baptist and that the law and prophets were only until John. These verses prove solidly that John the Baptist is the one who made the way for Jesus, as the prophesied Elijah. This proves John the Baptist was the true Revelator, who was the one to reveal Jesus.

By: Jo Smith

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Re:who wrote Revelation?

Date Posted:01/31/2015 12:51 AMCopy HTML


msn-†graverobber† wrote on Sep 17, '05
Luke 9:7-9 - "Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead; And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again. And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him." (KJV)
 
John the Baptist died BEFORE the end of the ministry of Jesus.
 
Revelation was written AFTER the death of John the Baptist.
 
How do I know this? Look at Revelation 1:4-6 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (KJV)
 
John writes to seven churches. The churches had not yet been established until after the death and resurrection of Christ and all of the events in the Book of Acts. Also, John speaks of Jesus who had "washed us from our sins in his own blood," meaning that Jesus had already died on the cross, past-tense. John the Baptist had already been dead for two years before this event and many more years since the founding of the seven churches of Asia.
 
Jo, your logic is flawed, it's obvious that Revelation was written by John the Apostle. This is not something has has to be "revealed" by the Holy Ghost. It's plain common sense and it would be embarrassingly foolish to suggest otherwise and by continuing to claim that John the Baptist is the author of the Book of Revelation, just makes a mockery of being a foolish Christian to the unbelieving world.
msn-joie wrote on Sep 18, '05
GRobber,  did you read the message?  I dare say you did not.  I dare say none of the others who objected to this TRUTH read it either.
 
I do not think any of you want truth.  You just go about saying what some other false teacher said to you.  have you made a search of the Scriptures on this subject?  Or are you just a parrot = repeating what you were told?
 
So you think that just because the churches were not set up yet, that prophecy could not go forth?  My my.
 
then how did any prophecy come forth?  How would it be prophecy if it had to happen before it could be told?  The very fact of it being prophecy means it is being FORETOLD.
 
Now:
Ps 22:1To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Ps 22:2O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Ps 22:3But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Ps 22:4Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
Ps 22:5They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Ps 22:6But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Ps 22:7All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Ps 22:8He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
Ps 22:9But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Ps 22:10I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Ps 22:11Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Ps 22:12Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Ps 22:13They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Ps 22:14I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Ps 22:15My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Ps 22:16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps 22:17I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Ps 22:18They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Ps 22:19But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Psalms 22.  HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN?  Guess!

Long BEFORE Jesus died on that cross.  Yet here Jesus is speaking in the PAST TENSE OF HIS DEATH.......v16. for dogs HAVE compasssed me...they pierCED my hands and my feet.  they part my garments etc.

Now how in this world did David write this so many years BEFORE Jesus even lived?  Yet he wrote it as if it had ALREADY HAPPENED.

 

So then I ask you,  who is being misled?  who is messed up?

I ask any of you,  take the Word of God and prove that John the disciple bore witness of Jesus.  It cannot be done.

Take the Word and prove that an angel brought this revelation to a disciple?  He did no such thing.  That only happened in the OT PROPHETS.

Jesus Christ opened the understanding of his disciples AFTER HIS RESURRECTION.

Prove by the Word of God that revelation was written after the death of Jesus!  You cannot do it.

John the Baptist was a man sent from God for this very purpose........to BEAR WITNESS OF JESUS. 

Where does the Word say the disciple bore witness of Jesus?  It does not.  The disciple was a witness of Jesus, but so was peter and the others.  Only John the Baptist bore witness of Jesus.  The Revelation is the revealing or witness of Jesus.  Only an OT Prophet could have written this prophetical book.  No disciple could be a prophet of this type.  It was an OT prophet, of which John was the LAST.

 

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

This entire chapter speaks of the curcifixion of Jesus in the PAST TENSE....LONG BEFORE IT HAPPENED.......SO GR, your reasoning is again carnal and without Scriptrual basis.  Bring forth some PROOF FROM THE WORD THAT THE DISCIPLE WROTE THE BOOK.

John the Baptist was in the desert [wilderness] before his showing to Israel.  This is when he wrote this Book.  Did not he say God gave him a revelation of how he would know the one God had shown him about?

You are just too misguided!

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